Shattering The Sky - Breaking Thru’ Aviation | Episode 118

Isabel: 00:00:00

All right, seasoned women!

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It's about to get a little turbulent here because I am excited beyond a

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measure to introduce to you my very special guest today, Lola Reid Allin.

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Her legacy of lifetime experience and diverse travel locations.

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Wow!

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I don't know how you pack more into a life, but one way you can do it is

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by packing a lot of it into a book.

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For those of you that are on YouTube, you'll be able to see I'm holding up

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her book, tell you a little bit more about that in a second, but I was

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thrilled to be invited to be one of the people to interview Lola before

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the launch of her new book, and that is taking place on September the

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18th, so it's one week from the day that we are recording this interview.

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The number of synchronicities, I might say, to this opportunity to interview Lola

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will reveal themselves as we go along.

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But what I'm so happy about today is that we can bring a different perspective to

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seasoned women, serious business, and it's about the business of succeeding in

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a male dominated industry, and opening up more opportunities for other women.

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Welcome, Captain!

Lola: 00:01:38

Thank you very much.

Lola: 00:01:39

It's my pleasure to be here.

Lola: 00:01:40

Thank you so much for inviting me.

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I do not believe in reading formal bios verbatim, but All of

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that will be on the show notes on podcast platforms, and we cover them

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all also in the YouTube description.

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So for those of you that are already rapidly taking notes for this

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interview, everything that you need to know about finding Lola and finding

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out where she's going to be, and I'm hoping you'll be signing books.

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I'm bringing mine to Canada, by the way, in case I can meet up with you in

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person, and also just the associations and organizations that she is a

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part of that are all woven into what we're going to talk about today.

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I feel, Lola, that I've got so much that I want to talk to you

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about that I will be fearful that maybe I'll just do all the talking.

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I'm going to start off by saying that I have not read your entire

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book yet, but the chapters and the passages that I randomly chose

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surprised me for a couple of reasons.

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I really was expecting it to be a little drier and a little more technical.

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And let me tell you, audience, it is anything but dry.

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It is so juicy.

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There were a lot of whoa, blink moments for me.

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And there were also a lot of moments that were a little tender, a little

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raw for me because you share so very authentically and so generously

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your life experience as a woman, as a mother, as a professional, as a wife,

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as a family member that it was great.

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I could see myself in some of your experiences.

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And because I believe so much in us sharing our wisdom to help

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other women, we lift as we climb.

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Before I turn it over to you, I'm going to tell you that one of my very favorite

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parts of the book is your landing.

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And I'd just like to read this for everyone before they go get

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their own copy of the book; make sure you get to the end because:

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"While searching for authenticity, I made many mistakes and hurt many people.

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But finally!

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I know who I am and who I want to be.

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Life is a privilege.

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I have chosen to fulfill with challenges, but without those opportunities to learn

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and grow and find my true self, my life would be a different kind of death."

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How did you get to that final paragraph of the book, Lola?

Isabel: 00:04:32

A lot of hard work.

Lola: 00:04:33

I started off, it's a memoir.

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It's, so a memoir is about me, right?

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How much harder, how hard could that be?

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I know me.

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Memoir isn't about me.

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It's about what happened to me.

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How it affected me, how did I learn, and how I can give that information or

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that knowledge, or the suggestion of that knowledge, or how it impacted me,

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and how I can transform that into a book that someone would read and enjoy.

Lola: 00:04:59

So when I first started, I realized pretty quickly, by the

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way that I needed a lot of help.

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Gotham Writers was the first place I studied, and then I switched over

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to the University of Toronto and the Creative Writing Department.

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But the first few comments were, we have no idea what you're talking about

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this is way too technical, and someone very wisely and succinctly said, " A

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memoir isn't Flight Training Manual.

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We need to have a bit of it, right?

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But we don't need your really step by step, play by play

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of how to fly the airplane."

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And so I got really confident.

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I did a lot of work and I had a really good, I think, a good, finished product.

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But I sent it out a bit, and of course it was rejected.

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But I was hardened from that already.

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And then I thought I'm going to get a developmental editor.

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And I found one through the Canadian Writers Association, and she was great.

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She told me two things that were absolutely fabulous.

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Her name is Sarah Chauncey, and she is American, but living in British Columbia.

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So I'm indebted.

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First thing she said was, your book is good and it's, it shows great potential,

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but we need to see a lot more of Lola and feel a lot more of what Lola's

Lola: 00:06:11

feeling so that we can identify with her, not as a pilot, but as a woman, as a

Lola: 00:06:18

mother, as a wife, as a business person.

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And so that was really helpful.

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And the other thing she told me, and she was so bang on here, she said, you're

Lola: 00:06:27

not really writing about aviation.

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Yes, it's the platform that propels your book forward.

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But what you're really writing about is women's issues, and that's what

Lola: 00:06:40

it ultimately turned out to be.

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So I gave a lot more.

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I actually had another developmental editor who also

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said, Just give more of yourself!

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And probably I went overboard and I've given lots of information about me

Lola: 00:06:51

and how I felt and what I did with it.

Lola: 00:06:54

And I liked what you said earlier about needing to learn more about

Lola: 00:06:57

the mistakes I'd made before.

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I made more mistakes, but I think ultimately I became a better person

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and a much more settled person.

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And in fact, I've been married for to the same man for 26 years.

Lola: 00:07:11

And I, and we have a really wonderful relationship, but it was a long

Lola: 00:07:15

journey and it was definitely worth it and I'm so grateful to everyone

Lola: 00:07:19

that helped me along the way.

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And it was Sarah also who suggested that.

Lola: 00:07:23

I start with the chapter that is in the first bit of the book because

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it bookends the fact that this is about women and women's issues.

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So the first chapter talks about an older woman who has gone

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through three instructors, they're all male, they can't figure out

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why she can't land the airplane.

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These were all great guys; and again, I hope that I've portrayed

Lola: 00:07:45

everybody in the best light possible.

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They were product of their environment and they really, truly could not understand

Lola: 00:07:52

why a 59 year old woman, who had a wonderful husband, a beautiful home

Lola: 00:07:58

and four grown children and a couple of grandchildren wanted anything else.

Lola: 00:08:02

What she wanted was something that was her very own that she

Lola: 00:08:06

had accomplished on her own.

Lola: 00:08:08

And initially, she actually did not want to fly with me because she

Lola: 00:08:13

also bought into it subconsciously.

Lola: 00:08:15

I don't think she realized it, but what she said to the chief

Lola: 00:08:17

instructor was I don't just want someone who's a pretty face.

Lola: 00:08:21

Wasn't she just hired to be politically correct?

Lola: 00:08:24

We ultimately became friends.

Lola: 00:08:26

I figured out what the problem was.

Lola: 00:08:27

It was almost a fluke.

Lola: 00:08:28

I almost missed it too.

Lola: 00:08:30

It really wraps it up nicely.

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as a book about women's issues and the special challenges we have in a world

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that's populated, not exclusively, but at least in aviation, 94 percent

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of commercial pilots are male.

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So we're pretty outnumbered.

Lola: 00:08:49

Still.

Lola: 00:08:51

Still, yes, correct, still.

Lola: 00:08:52

And it's been that way since about 1980.

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There are two exceptions to that.

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About 6 percent of the world's Commercial pilots are female.

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I'm saying commercial.

Lola: 00:09:02

So there's a lot of female pilots out there.

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They're in air races, going to events, they're hosting charities, poker runs.

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They're doing lots of fun stuff.

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There's a great network of women who are pilots, but not flying commercially.

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But commercial pilots, there are two exceptions to that six percent.

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One of them is in Canada, that's Porter Airlines at Billy Bishop Airport, they

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have, and it varies, but generally they're 12 to 13 percent female pilots,

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and their chief pilot was was female.

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She's now gone on to Transport Canada, and they have assistant

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chief pilots who are female.

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The other exception to that six percent is India, and they have had commercial

Lola: 00:09:42

pilots who are female since the 1960s, and they have an about the same average 12

Lola: 00:09:47

to 13 percent, and again that fluctuates.

Lola: 00:09:49

They, the women of India, have support and encouragement and financial support.

Isabel: 00:09:55

Lola, I can't help but think how ironic it is that it's a common expression

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that women hold up half the sky.

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But where the fuck are we in the sky with representation?

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As you said, it's not just commercial pilot status but in addition, there

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are other careers in aviation, like military pilots and there's astronauts

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and charter pilots, corporate flights, FBO flights, which is, what we shared

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a bit off camera earlier was that I had a brief career in aviation myself.

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I got to thinking after I was reading your book and I looked at those stats

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myself and I thought, what is wrong?

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Why haven't we made bigger advance here?

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There's a lot of talk about encouraging girls in STEM, and in many respects

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there's a relationship here.

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There's mechanics, there's engineering, there's design, there's avionics,

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which was part of my background.

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There's air traffic control.

Isabel: 00:11:02

Absolutely.

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And I think it's somewhere in your book that you mentioned that there was

Isabel: 00:11:07

a certainly it seems to still exist.

Isabel: 00:11:10

We expect to see women behind the ticket counter.

Isabel: 00:11:14

Correct.

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But we don't expect to see her in the cockpit.

Lola: 00:11:19

How

Isabel: 00:11:20

How can this be right?

Lola: 00:11:22

It's just a lingering attitude, and I think things are changing.

Lola: 00:11:26

The younger generation, men and women, are more accommodating, more welcoming,

Lola: 00:11:31

more used to seeing even those few women.

Lola: 00:11:34

So the numbers of female commercial pilots has increased.

Lola: 00:11:38

When I actually got out of aviation and I got into studying the Maya of

Lola: 00:11:43

Mesoamerica and flying, I lived there for three years, but then after coming back

Lola: 00:11:47

to Canada, I went back to Mesoamerica.

Lola: 00:11:49

But there were no non stop flights from Toronto to some of the destinations.

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So I would fly to Houston to Dallas Atlanta, and Miami.

Lola: 00:12:00

And I'd always see female pilots.

Lola: 00:12:02

Now they were all, commercial pilots, they were almost always first officers.

Lola: 00:12:05

But that didn't surprise me, because I'm talking now from 96 onward, 1996 onward.

Lola: 00:12:10

So that didn't surprise me.

Lola: 00:12:11

But the fact that I always saw female pilots in the terminals or

Lola: 00:12:16

in the aircraft, that was great.

Lola: 00:12:18

So I was really amazed when I learned that the percentage remained the same.

Lola: 00:12:22

And what really drew my attention to the problem was I've got it

Lola: 00:12:27

here, a clipping that I saw.

Lola: 00:12:31

I copied it from online: a note, written on an aircraft

Lola: 00:12:36

napkin, and this one was WestJet.

Lola: 00:12:38

This is not to me, this was to someone named Captain Stacy.

Lola: 00:12:42

But this is what it looks like, and then I'll read it to you.

Lola: 00:12:46

This is 2014.

Lola: 00:12:48

It says to Captain forward slash WestJet: the cockpit of an

Lola: 00:12:51

airliner is No Place for a woman.

Lola: 00:12:54

A woman being a mother is the most honorable, not as captain.

Lola: 00:12:58

We're short mothers, not pilots at WestJet.

Lola: 00:13:03

P.

Lola: 00:13:03

S.

Lola: 00:13:04

I wish WestJet could tell me a fair lady is at the helm

Lola: 00:13:09

so I can take another flight.

Lola: 00:13:11

That was 2014!

Lola: 00:13:13

I couldn't believe it.

Lola: 00:13:14

I thought, oh my gosh, this is the kind of, I never got a note on a napkin, but

Lola: 00:13:18

this is the kind of stuff that I put up with in the 80s and the early 90s.

Lola: 00:13:22

So how could this still be happening?

Lola: 00:13:24

What was different about this particular event was that she

Lola: 00:13:28

had the support of her company.

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And she also had internet.

Lola: 00:13:33

I copied this off of her Facebook posting, so she could also reach out

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to people very quickly and very easily.

Lola: 00:13:41

It hit all the media at the time.

Lola: 00:13:42

There was a lot of adverse reaction, so that was encouraging.

Lola: 00:13:47

The whole thing is very shocking, but it got me very interested, and wondering

Lola: 00:13:52

why this still could be happening.

Lola: 00:13:53

So I reached out to a couple of friends I knew were still very involved in aviation

Lola: 00:13:57

and they said, Oh, there are a couple Facebook pages that are invitation only.

Lola: 00:14:02

Join them and you'll see women venting a lot about some of these, I'm

Lola: 00:14:07

going to call them microaggressions.

Lola: 00:14:09

Some of them aren't intentional.

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So for example, they're intentional, but they're not necessarily negative.

Lola: 00:14:16

That is, the person is not necessarily intending to be negative.

Lola: 00:14:19

For example, at some of the northern bases, the pilots had to load the baggage.

Lola: 00:14:24

And at some of the northern bases, you're getting people who are hunting

Lola: 00:14:27

and fishing and the bags were huge.

Lola: 00:14:29

They should have been outlawed.

Lola: 00:14:30

They were massive.

Lola: 00:14:31

So I'd lug the baggage cart over and I'd, throw the luggage into the baggage

Lola: 00:14:36

cart and every flight, but almost some man would try and take the bag from

Lola: 00:14:41

me, like physically try and wrestle it from me and say things like; "Oh my

Lola: 00:14:45

God, this is way too heavy for a woman.

Lola: 00:14:47

You shouldn't be doing this."

Lola: 00:14:49

And they were being nice.

Lola: 00:14:51

I want to emphasize they were being nice.

Lola: 00:14:53

They were behaving in the way that is that's considered socially appropriate,

Lola: 00:14:57

the way they'd been raised that women don't do that sort of thing.

Lola: 00:15:01

But what they were also saying, not intentionally, I'm pretty

Lola: 00:15:04

sure, but they were all nice guys, was that women shouldn't be doing

Lola: 00:15:07

this, and you aren't capable.

Lola: 00:15:09

And I would grab the bag back and just throw it in and then that

Lola: 00:15:14

usually got people's attention, as it ricocheted off the metal, but,

Lola: 00:15:18

little things like that after a while, that kind of gets to you too.

Lola: 00:15:21

And it is still happening.

Lola: 00:15:22

Let's put it that way.

Lola: 00:15:23

It is still happening.

Lola: 00:15:23

Not that specifically, but it is still happening.

Isabel: 00:15:27

Yeah.

Isabel: 00:15:27

And I'm pretty confident that people who know you and know me we're not throwing

Isabel: 00:15:33

a pity party here, or a bitch session.

Isabel: 00:15:36

Oh no!

Isabel: 00:15:37

We're just talking about what does it take to change some of these paradigms.

Isabel: 00:15:44

Enough already.

Isabel: 00:15:46

I was reading one of your chapters and so this was going back and

Isabel: 00:15:50

setting societally the mindset.

Isabel: 00:15:54

You're talking about Mr.

Isabel: 00:15:56

Cocky and Kurt and the conversation while you're inside the aircraft

Isabel: 00:16:03

doing, studying something, right?

Isabel: 00:16:05

And so you're unfortunately witness to a conversation

Isabel: 00:16:09

that they're having about you.

Isabel: 00:16:11

And not surprising, because I heard this myself, even when I was an

Isabel: 00:16:15

attendant at the desk at the FBO, "Boobs don't belong in a fucking cockpit!"

Isabel: 00:16:23

But, the other side of that was I was required to wear a skin tight

Isabel: 00:16:29

uniform and, make sure that my (Lola: Eye Candy!) nails were done.

Isabel: 00:16:35

Absolutely.

Isabel: 00:16:36

Absolutely!

Isabel: 00:16:37

And I must say, it was, I loved being in aviation.

Isabel: 00:16:41

It was such an educational part of my life.

Isabel: 00:16:46

aside from my joy today of still being able to recite the aviation alphabet

Isabel: 00:16:50

at cocktail parties after a few drinks.

Isabel: 00:16:53

But I loved the opportunity that I was standing at the forefront of how to

Isabel: 00:16:59

get out and see the rest of the world after being raised in a small, rural

Isabel: 00:17:05

community not far from where you live.

Isabel: 00:17:07

So the fact you did that, and you took that I went on, and

Isabel: 00:17:11

as you said, you've explored.

Isabel: 00:17:13

We're talking all about aviation, but I also want to say kudos to you

Isabel: 00:17:18

for your work with photography and anthropology and bringing it all

Isabel: 00:17:25

together, making one world united.

Isabel: 00:17:28

I love it!

Lola: 00:17:29

Thank you.

Lola: 00:17:30

I think we are changing.

Lola: 00:17:32

For example, when I was in high school in the 70s, I wanted to take shop and

Lola: 00:17:37

our auto mechanics, that kind of stuff.

Lola: 00:17:39

And I went to the guidance counsellor.

Lola: 00:17:42

I didn't see why I couldn't.

Lola: 00:17:43

There was no physical reason for me not to be able to take it, but I was told

Lola: 00:17:48

that shop was for boys and that I should take home ec because I would learn how

Lola: 00:17:53

to cook and sew which would be valuable skills for me when I got married and

Lola: 00:17:58

my husband would be so happy to have a wife who could cook and clean and sew.

Lola: 00:18:03

My argument was that my mother and my grandmother had already

Lola: 00:18:07

taught me how to cook and sew.

Lola: 00:18:08

So I may not be a Michelin chef, or I wasn't sewing haute

Lola: 00:18:12

couture, but I could do that.

Lola: 00:18:15

He said it didn't matter, I couldn't do it.

Lola: 00:18:16

I might have been able to protest, but , it was the beginning of

Lola: 00:18:20

my feelings of being defeated.

Lola: 00:18:22

Even if when I tried, he said there's no recourse, girls don't take it,

Lola: 00:18:26

and, they, you won't be welcome.

Lola: 00:18:28

But they are taking it today.

Lola: 00:18:29

So there is progress.

Lola: 00:18:31

There are girls who take shop and I'm hoping that there are

Lola: 00:18:34

guys who take cooking and sewing.

Lola: 00:18:37

My husband is a physician.

Lola: 00:18:39

He didn't take typing or keyboarding when he was in high school because

Lola: 00:18:43

he expected that he would have a secretary who would do all that.

Lola: 00:18:47

And he does have a secretary but he also has to input his patient

Lola: 00:18:52

information, into medical records.

Lola: 00:18:54

It may seem like you don't need it at the time, but everything you

Lola: 00:18:57

can learn will build on you as a person, no matter what your goal is.

Lola: 00:19:01

And in high school, there are a few people who know what they

Lola: 00:19:04

want to do when they grow up.

Lola: 00:19:07

My husband, again, being one.

Lola: 00:19:08

His father was a doctor, a gynecologist.

Lola: 00:19:11

His uncle an ophthalmologist, and their grandfather was a general physician.

Lola: 00:19:18

My husband at age six knew he wanted to become a doctor and he knew he

Lola: 00:19:21

could become a doctor because he had three family members who were

Lola: 00:19:26

role models who would encourage him.

Lola: 00:19:28

That's a bit unusual, but it does happen.

Lola: 00:19:30

But again, it just shows you the value of role models.

Lola: 00:19:33

The first two Canadian pilots hired by a major commercial airline were Judy

Lola: 00:19:42

Cameron was the first for Air Canada, and Rosella Bjornsson was the first commercial

Lola: 00:19:47

pilot hired by a major Canadian airline.

Lola: 00:19:50

Both of them had very strong family backgrounds.

Lola: 00:19:55

Judy's mom was single, or divorced I guess, was very

Lola: 00:19:57

encouraging, very supportive.

Lola: 00:19:59

And Rosella's dad had his own airplane, and there's a really cute little picture

Lola: 00:20:04

of her and him standing in front of the airplane when she's about five years old.

Lola: 00:20:09

She learned to fly when she was 12 years old, and so she couldn't be licensed.

Lola: 00:20:13

But then when she went to get her license at age 16, it was she

Lola: 00:20:18

already knew most of the lessons.

Lola: 00:20:19

Her dad realized that if she was going to go flying with him, it might be nice

Lola: 00:20:23

to give her some of the basics anyway.

Lola: 00:20:25

But the point is they had strong family backgrounds that supported them.

Isabel: 00:20:29

There was a beautiful segue, or should I say runway, to something

Isabel: 00:20:35

I wanted to talk to you about and that is being able to see yourself

Isabel: 00:20:40

in a career, as you talked about your husband's family as doctors, it was

Isabel: 00:20:46

easier for him to see himself as a doctor because he had role models.

Isabel: 00:20:50

I thank you and your colleagues that are in the various aviation for women

Isabel: 00:20:56

organizations for visibility because I think, to my mind, that's the only

Isabel: 00:21:01

way we're going to significantly increase the number in aviation

Isabel: 00:21:06

is if you can see yourself there.

Isabel: 00:21:08

Yes!

Isabel: 00:21:09

Whatever age, whatever ethnicity, whatever cultural wardrobe you wear,

Isabel: 00:21:16

we have to have visible examples so that young girls, young women

Isabel: 00:21:21

could go, "Ooh, that could be me!"

Isabel: 00:21:26

I just want to say, you had to create your own model to look up to, right?

Isabel: 00:21:32

Your family did not support you in that little girl's dream.

Isabel: 00:21:36

They were wonderful people.

Isabel: 00:21:37

They just didn't want children.

Isabel: 00:21:39

My father particularly.

Isabel: 00:21:41

And when he said that girls don't fly, he was being very negative, but he was

Isabel: 00:21:46

also being realistic in the sense of his observation was that girls don't fly.

Isabel: 00:21:52

He resented me just being there, but he also resented me deeply for

Isabel: 00:21:57

becoming a pilot that he wanted to be.

Isabel: 00:21:59

He signed up in 1939 with the Royal Canadian Air Force, and

Isabel: 00:22:04

he was not able to be a pilot.

Isabel: 00:22:06

Every boy that signed up wanted to be a pilot, but he was not able to

Isabel: 00:22:09

be a pilot because of serious ear damage from childhood ear infections.

Isabel: 00:22:14

but he did work for the military as an aircraft maintenance engineer at

Isabel: 00:22:19

various bases in Ontario, and I'm sure he must have seen female pilots,

Isabel: 00:22:25

even though he said girls don't fly.

Isabel: 00:22:26

He must have seen those female pilots, because during World War II, there

Isabel: 00:22:30

was the Air Transport Auxiliary, there was the WASPs in America, and

Isabel: 00:22:34

they were flying back and forth from Canada to America, and then over to

Isabel: 00:22:38

Britain with the military planes, taking those planes over so that the

Isabel: 00:22:42

men could use them in combat positions.

Isabel: 00:22:45

I don't know if there were any female maintenance engineers in

Isabel: 00:22:49

World War II, Rosie the Riveter.

Isabel: 00:22:51

I think there were in the factories building airplanes, maybe not maintenance

Isabel: 00:22:56

engineers in the military, but I'm sure he would have seen female pilots.

Isabel: 00:23:01

Yeah, he was a bit of a misogynist, really.

Isabel: 00:23:04

But he was created by the time period, too.

Isabel: 00:23:07

It wasn't that he stuck out.

Isabel: 00:23:09

I'm sure that people will say, oh, your dad was a wonderful man.

Isabel: 00:23:12

They did say that.

Isabel: 00:23:13

Dad's a wonderful man.

Isabel: 00:23:15

And he was a wonderful man.

Isabel: 00:23:18

But you know what?

Isabel: 00:23:18

If you shouldn't, if you don't want kids, you shouldn't have them.

Isabel: 00:23:22

And that wasn't their fault.

Isabel: 00:23:23

In 1950, there weren't many choices for for people to not have children

Isabel: 00:23:29

other than abstinence or Russian roulette with prophylactics.

Isabel: 00:23:33

Sure.

Isabel: 00:23:33

And I'm sure there was some peer pressure, a family pressure as well, right?

Isabel: 00:23:38

Yes,

Isabel: 00:23:39

Part of my life story, my journey is being a single mom as a teen, and the

Isabel: 00:23:45

pressure that was put on me; it's not right to raise a boy without a father.

Isabel: 00:23:50

The pressure there was that you're not conforming, even

Isabel: 00:23:54

though I was self sufficient, independent, and we were doing well.

Isabel: 00:23:59

Nice.

Isabel: 00:24:00

So you're right.

Isabel: 00:24:01

This isn't about a witch hunt blaming people for

Isabel: 00:24:04

not at all

Isabel: 00:24:05

It was the way life was.

Isabel: 00:24:08

It doesn't have to be like that now, at least that it be particularly in terms of.

Isabel: 00:24:13

And again, we share

Isabel: 00:24:17

some connection around domestic violence.

Isabel: 00:24:21

That one of your stories you're talking about, the police were

Isabel: 00:24:26

really essentially handcuffed from taking action to protect you.

Isabel: 00:24:30

And that was my experience.

Isabel: 00:24:32

So it's these conversations and books like yours, telling stories like you

Isabel: 00:24:39

do, that is, I believe, going to make sure that we don't revert and I hope,

Isabel: 00:24:45

accelerate the path to better behaviors.

Isabel: 00:24:49

I want people to stick around here.

Isabel: 00:24:51

There's some little surprises coming for them.

Isabel: 00:24:55

There's a lot about you publicly available.

Isabel: 00:24:59

And now when they buy your book, wow.

Isabel: 00:25:03

They're going to learn a great deal more about your personal life and what

Isabel: 00:25:07

it was like to grow up in that era that we did and establish our financial

Isabel: 00:25:13

independence and our self worth and learning about, which is the other thing

Isabel: 00:25:18

I really appreciated, you talked about learning who you are, making the mistakes

Isabel: 00:25:22

along the way, and owning the fact sometimes we made big mistakes, right?

Isabel: 00:25:28

But.

Isabel: 00:25:28

What is something we might not find out about you easily on Google?

Lola: 00:25:36

I'm really an introvert.

Lola: 00:25:40

I know that's probably strange, but I am introverted.

Lola: 00:25:44

I do feel strongly about this message, so I want to do these conversations

Lola: 00:25:48

and I wrote the book to initiate some of those conversations that we

Lola: 00:25:52

need to talk about this and to bring out what, how women feel when we're

Lola: 00:25:57

faced in some of these situations.

Lola: 00:25:59

But yeah, I guess I'm an introvert.

Lola: 00:26:01

I love being alone, which maybe isn't that surprising.

Lola: 00:26:04

My two main careers were scuba diver and pilot, and I like

Lola: 00:26:08

to fly alone, best of all.

Lola: 00:26:10

So you don't do a lot of talking.

Lola: 00:26:12

except on the radio, if you're flying in an airplane and you're not doing

Lola: 00:26:15

any talking when you're underwater with a regulator in your mouth.

Lola: 00:26:18

And I like being alone.

Lola: 00:26:20

A lot.

Lola: 00:26:21

And not to mention the trekking that you do, which I'm sure

Lola: 00:26:24

is not with a large crowd.

Lola: 00:26:27

No, it's not.

Lola: 00:26:28

It's not.

Lola: 00:26:29

The trek I've done that had the most people on it was the Inka

Lola: 00:26:33

Trail, which was the first big trek I did, and that was in 2002.

Lola: 00:26:37

But my favorite trek of all I thought it was going to be the trek in

Lola: 00:26:41

the Himalayas this past November.

Lola: 00:26:43

You have my admiration.

Lola: 00:26:45

I'm not sure that I want to work that hard for that experience, but

Lola: 00:26:50

also I'm thinking, wow, here we are.

Lola: 00:26:51

We're in the sky.

Lola: 00:26:52

We're in the rivers.

Lola: 00:26:53

We're trekking up mountain sides, the Himalayas.

Lola: 00:26:56

It's fantastic.

Lola: 00:26:59

Okay, I know that you have a lot going on right now with book launches and also

Lola: 00:27:04

we didn't talk about the other thing I appreciate in getting to know you is

Lola: 00:27:09

that you provide a lot of educational opportunities in the communities with

Lola: 00:27:15

presentations on your travels and you're involved in speaking in aviation

Lola: 00:27:21

related organizations for women.

Lola: 00:27:24

So thank you very much for doing that because that's, as seasoned

Lola: 00:27:29

women, it's our sharing of wisdom that to me is invaluable.

Lola: 00:27:34

Where might people find you in the next while with the book release

Lola: 00:27:39

if they do want to get a copy in person and have you sign it?

Lola: 00:27:44

You can find out that information on my website, which is LolaReidAllin.Com.

Lola: 00:27:49

Also on Facebook, also on Instagram, and it's some variation of Lola Reid Allin.

Lola: 00:27:56

I'm going to be in Toronto on September 21st at the Billy Bishop Airport.

Lola: 00:28:01

There's an event called Girls Take Flight.

Lola: 00:28:04

For years it's been held at the Oshawa Airport, and it's been on one day,

Lola: 00:28:08

and there's been a flight component where girls, I think between the ages

Lola: 00:28:11

of 8 and 18, can get in an aircraft with a licensed pilot, and the

Lola: 00:28:18

pilot will take them for a flight.

Lola: 00:28:19

That still happened at the beginning of this year, in April, I believe, but it's

Lola: 00:28:23

been split into two, I guess for more visibility at the Toronto Island Airport.

Lola: 00:28:28

So that's an all day event on September 21st.

Lola: 00:28:32

I'm in and out of Toronto doing a variety of presentations.

Lola: 00:28:35

I'm actually doing a presentation on the 25th in Toronto at one

Lola: 00:28:39

of the libraries about summiting Kilimanjaro and then going on safari.

Lola: 00:28:43

I'm back in Toronto doing Nepal and I do these presentations, just to encourage

Lola: 00:28:49

people to even do part of the trek.

Lola: 00:28:51

My favorite part about the Nepal trek was when we actually got to some smaller

Lola: 00:28:55

villages and stayed a couple days.

Lola: 00:28:57

But that was a difficult trek.

Lola: 00:28:59

We're up to about 6, 000 meters, so about 17, 000 feet.

Lola: 00:29:03

See where else am I?

Lola: 00:29:04

A lot of places.

Lola: 00:29:05

I'm in all on the Ontario region.

Lola: 00:29:08

I'm going to be in Ottawa, in Belleville, Picton Cobourg.

Lola: 00:29:11

Peterborough.

Lola: 00:29:12

I'm also going to be in Denver in March 25th to the 26th, and that's in

Lola: 00:29:17

conjunction with the Women in Aviation International Organization Convention.

Lola: 00:29:22

I think it's their 37th annual convention.

Lola: 00:29:25

Liz Booker of the Literary Aviatrix has arranged a booth for us,

Lola: 00:29:30

us meaning women who are pilots and have also written a book.

Isabel: 00:29:35

Oh, this is fantastic.

Isabel: 00:29:36

Thank you for reminding me that all of this will be on your website,

Isabel: 00:29:40

because that's the best, because that'll be updated as you add notes.

Lola: 00:29:43

Exactly.

Isabel: 00:29:44

Yeah, and I'm also inspired to talk with you about

Isabel: 00:29:47

how do we get you to Arizona?

Isabel: 00:29:50

Oh, that's awesome!

Isabel: 00:29:51

This is a fifth largest city here in the U.

Isabel: 00:29:55

S.

Isabel: 00:29:55

Is it really?

Isabel: 00:29:56

Yes, PHX is one of the largest international airports in the U.

Isabel: 00:30:01

S.

Lola: 00:30:02

I didn't know that.

Lola: 00:30:03

My book is also being reviewed by Jackie Boyd, who is a member of the International

Lola: 00:30:09

99th, and she's reviewing the book in the back of the 99th International Magazine.

Lola: 00:30:14

So yeah, that would be fun to do.

Lola: 00:30:16

Writing this book was a challenge, it's far harder than flying.

Isabel: 00:30:21

I know it is.

Isabel: 00:30:22

When people say, I want to write a book, I've got a couple of books in me.

Isabel: 00:30:25

I think, okay you say that.

Isabel: 00:30:28

but follow through and finish it and publish it.

Isabel: 00:30:31

And then, and this is why I was so pleased to be able to,

Isabel: 00:30:34

in my small way, support you.

Isabel: 00:30:36

The next big thing is marketing it because it doesn't matter how good the

Isabel: 00:30:42

book is, if nobody knows about it, then.

Isabel: 00:30:45

Yeah, it's a

Lola: 00:30:46

big thing.

Lola: 00:30:46

And I've been so lucky with Book Savvy, Sharon Bialy and Camille at Book Savvy.

Lola: 00:30:52

They're fabulous.

Lola: 00:30:53

And I've done a lot of outreach on my own as well.

Lola: 00:30:56

They've been super helpful.

Lola: 00:30:57

I have this massive spreadsheet and Google Docs that Camille did,

Lola: 00:31:03

and it's you gotta be kidding!

Lola: 00:31:04

Otherwise, and then this week Camille sent me an email at the beginning

Lola: 00:31:07

of the week saying, okay, this is what you're doing this week.

Lola: 00:31:10

And I thought, wow, that's really helpful as well.

Lola: 00:31:13

So I'm busy.

Lola: 00:31:14

It's, they've been fabulous.

Lola: 00:31:15

I recommend them to anybody or to any author who wants a publicist.

Isabel: 00:31:20

That is good to know.

Isabel: 00:31:22

And, supporting, as I said yesterday, I did a Instagram story that

Isabel: 00:31:27

Yes, I saw it!

Isabel: 00:31:28

Oh, did you?

Isabel: 00:31:29

That's fabulous.

Isabel: 00:31:30

It's true.

Isabel: 00:31:31

I am so excited to be out of bed before 5 a.

Isabel: 00:31:34

m.

Isabel: 00:31:34

every day because I think, Wow, I get to do this stuff, right?

Isabel: 00:31:40

And every day is continuing growth, which is is the best medicine in

Isabel: 00:31:44

my opinion to feel like you're challenging your brain, you're meeting

Isabel: 00:31:50

new friends, you're learning stuff.

Isabel: 00:31:54

And I, I feel so strongly about us leaving our legacy, Lola, to other women.

Isabel: 00:32:00

But the best way we can do that is be here present to live

Isabel: 00:32:05

and share it while we're here.

Isabel: 00:32:08

Agreed.

Isabel: 00:32:09

Not posthumously, as they say.

Isabel: 00:32:12

Okay I open the invitation to work with whomever to collaborate

Isabel: 00:32:18

to bring you to Arizona.

Isabel: 00:32:20

Thank you.

Isabel: 00:32:21

And to have subsequent encounters.

Isabel: 00:32:24

I'd be loved to update.

Isabel: 00:32:25

I suspect that there will be more publications and more

Isabel: 00:32:29

stories coming from you.

Isabel: 00:32:31

I am

Lola: 00:32:32

working on one actually.

Lola: 00:32:34

I'm a member of a, again, Liz Booker of the Aviatrix Book Review and Aviatrix

Lola: 00:32:40

Book Club or Literary Aviatrix.

Lola: 00:32:42

I had suggested to her that maybe we should get together a group of women

Lola: 00:32:46

who want to be authors or who maybe are authors or working on a book.

Lola: 00:32:50

And so we've each done two groups of other authors budding and

Lola: 00:32:55

publish that works really well.

Lola: 00:32:57

And so right now I'm working with two published authors, one in America who

Lola: 00:33:01

is a a commercial glider instructor, and one in Australia, who is a private

Lola: 00:33:07

pilot and she and her husband both have airplanes, which is very cool.

Lola: 00:33:11

And when it started, I was finishing my book and they got to read the first six or

Lola: 00:33:15

seven chapters and then it went to press.

Lola: 00:33:17

And so I said to them I've got these stories, they're right now, they're just

Lola: 00:33:21

individual vignettes about my experiences living in the homes with the Maya and

Lola: 00:33:28

what it was like, what I learned, and what I liked, and what I didn't like,

Lola: 00:33:32

and how that works out ethnographically.

Lola: 00:33:34

And They said, sure, yeah, let's see, what it's like.

Lola: 00:33:37

And they're really enjoying it.

Lola: 00:33:39

So it's great.

Lola: 00:33:40

I'm really happy.

Lola: 00:33:40

I've got like about 35, 000 words already, mostly because I did a lot of journaling.

Lola: 00:33:46

If I'm there studying, I'm going to be taking notes.

Lola: 00:33:49

And I have a lot of notes and I don't want you to think that

Lola: 00:33:52

I just am copying my journal.

Lola: 00:33:54

That would be probably boring.

Lola: 00:33:56

So I read a couple pages and I think, okay, how can I translate

Lola: 00:34:00

that into something that's going to be a fun read and yet informative

Lola: 00:34:04

and enlightening about the culture of that particular Maya group.

Lola: 00:34:08

And there's some funny stories in it as well.

Isabel: 00:34:11

Oh, don't discount the journal, either, because I think that's such

Isabel: 00:34:16

a unique and personal approach.

Isabel: 00:34:18

I remember one of my favorite all time books, and we're running way

Isabel: 00:34:22

over time now but this is so fun

Isabel: 00:34:25

it is fun!

Isabel: 00:34:26

is a book called, These is My Words, and I'm putting the accent on

Isabel: 00:34:34

there, but it's about a woman in the United States in the wagon trains,

Isabel: 00:34:39

pioneering across the country and her diary of what happened every day.

Isabel: 00:34:45

It was just I think I forgot to eat and sleep until I finished it.

Lola: 00:34:51

These are my words.

Lola: 00:34:52

I haven't heard of it.

Lola: 00:34:53

It just off the top of my head, reminds me of Susanna

Lola: 00:34:57

Moody's Roughing It in the Bush.

Lola: 00:34:59

So Susanna Moody lived here in Belleville, and she and her husband

Lola: 00:35:07

were early settlers in this area.

Lola: 00:35:10

I think in the first half of the 19th century it's pretty amazing,

Lola: 00:35:15

but it can be a little dry.

Lola: 00:35:17

I guess a lot of the early writing was a little dry.

Lola: 00:35:20

That's my own personal opinion.

Lola: 00:35:21

So my, I'm speaking more about my journal.

Lola: 00:35:24

Yes, parts of it are funny for sure, but there were little anecdotes that

Lola: 00:35:29

You know, I'm building on in the story.

Lola: 00:35:30

So

Isabel: 00:35:31

marvelous.

Isabel: 00:35:32

I'm going to put a call out to everybody in the audience.

Isabel: 00:35:35

If anybody knows the full title and the author's name of These Is My Words

Isabel: 00:35:40

or Them Is My Words which I bought in a little gift shop at a ghost

Isabel: 00:35:46

gold mine here in Arizona years ago.

Isabel: 00:35:50

We're going to wrap here so you can go and be with the public who's waiting for you,

Isabel: 00:35:55

but for those continuing on this topic, a couple of weeks ago, I interviewed

Isabel: 00:36:00

another author with a book launching called How to Write and Sell a Seasoned

Isabel: 00:36:06

Romance, and her name is Stella Fosse.

Isabel: 00:36:10

It's all about a movement of us women of a certain age seasoned women who

Isabel: 00:36:17

are now writing erotica and romances.

Isabel: 00:36:22

Again, going back to this, so you can see yourself in the story.

Isabel: 00:36:27

Not Everybody is the Young Perfect Hallmark couple, right?

Lola: 00:36:32

Exactly.

Lola: 00:36:33

Actually, I started listening to that podcast earlier today.

Lola: 00:36:36

Oh.

Lola: 00:36:37

I love it.

Lola: 00:36:37

I love it.

Lola: 00:36:38

And it's interesting too, because I know it's one of those things.

Lola: 00:36:41

That's why I put a few mild not intercourse, but sexual sections in my

Lola: 00:36:48

book because every generation thinks they invented sex, which is, it's true, right?

Isabel: 00:36:54

Yes, how we can live with our own stories.

Isabel: 00:36:57

Okay, Lola, please pop in on social media and let us know how everything is going.

Isabel: 00:37:05

We support you, we celebrate you, and I am delighted to have met you and I certainly

Isabel: 00:37:12

hope that we have a an opportunity face to face, even if it's in an airport someday.

Lola: 00:37:17

I would love it.

Lola: 00:37:18

Well, Let's work on that and a few signings or readings

Lola: 00:37:21

or presentations, whatever.

Lola: 00:37:24

That'd be great.

Lola: 00:37:24

Book clubs.

Lola: 00:37:26

Absolutely.

Isabel: 00:37:27

You count on me.

Isabel: 00:37:27

We'll talk about that.

Isabel: 00:37:29

Thank you so much.

Isabel: 00:37:30

All right.

Isabel: 00:37:30

And now everybody remember before Lola leaves, her book is available

Isabel: 00:37:35

now for pre sale, but there it is.

Isabel: 00:37:38

And it's beautiful.

Isabel: 00:37:39

The cover is beautiful and her contact information, so you can

Isabel: 00:37:44

follow her will be in the notes.

Isabel: 00:37:46

Support her, support other women of a certain age, seasoned women because we're

Isabel: 00:37:52

out there doing seriously good stuff.

Isabel: 00:37:55

I guess so!

Isabel: 00:37:56

Thank you so much, Isabel.

Isabel: 00:37:57

It's been a real pleasure.

Isabel: 00:37:58

All righty, bye.

Isabel: 00:38:00

Bye.

Isabel: 00:38:00

Take care.